Wenn man sich von Datteln abhält, darf man Dattelhonig essen. von "sitvaniyoth" [minderwertige Trauben, die im Herbst auf den Reben zurückblieben (stav). Sie sind nicht für Wein geeignet, und aus ihnen wird Essig hergestellt.] Er darf Sitvaniyoth-Essig essen. R. Yehudah b. Betheira sagt: Alles, dessen Produkte beim Namen genannt werden [und obwohl es sich geändert hat, wird es beim Namen seiner Quelle genannt, z. B. "Dattelhonig", "Sitvaniyoth-Essig"]—wenn er sich davon abhält, ist es ihm verboten (auch zu essen), was daraus kommt. Und die Weisen erlauben es. [Der Unterschied zwischen der ersten Tanna und den Weisen besteht darin, dass die erste Tanna der Ansicht ist, dass jemand, der sich von Sitvaniyoth abhebt, den von ihnen ausgestoßenen Essig essen darf, aber es ist ihm verboten, die Sitvaniyoth selbst zu essen. "Und die Weisen erlauben" die Sitvaniyoth selbst. Denn da Sitvaniyoth (in der Regel) nicht gegessen werden, war seine Absicht, als er sich von "Sitvaniyoth" abhielt, der von ihnen ausgestoßene Essig, nicht der Sitvaniyoth selbst. Die Halacha entspricht den Weisen. Eine andere Interpretation: "Und die Weisen erlauben Sitvaniyoth-Essig genauso wie Dattelhonig, die Weisen behaupten, dass sowohl mit Dingen, die zum Essen passen, als auch mit Dingen, die nicht zum Essen passen, wenn man sich etwas Bestimmtes verbietet, er es darf essen, was dabei herauskommt.]
Bartenura on Mishnah Nedarim
סתוניות – bad grapes that remain in the vines in he days of the fall, bt are not appropriate for wine, and we make of them vinegar.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Nedarim
Introduction
Employing the example of dates and date honey, and winter grapes and winter grape vinegar, the mishnah discusses food derivatives that still partially retain the name of the foods from which they derive. An example today might be apples and apple juice. This differs from wine and oil (in the mishnah “oil” always refers to olive oil), which are not called “grape wine” or “olive oil”.
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Bartenura on Mishnah Nedarim
כל ששם תולדתו קרויה עליו – but even though it has changed, it is called by its original name, like the honey of date-palms and the vinegar of winter grapes.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Nedarim
He who vows abstinence from dates is permitted date honey; from winter grapes, is permitted winter-grape vinegar. Rabbi Judah ben Bathyra said: if it bears the name of its origin, and he vows to abstain from it, he is forbidden [to benefit] from what comes from it. But the Sages permit it.He who vows abstinence from dates is permitted date honey; from winter grapes, is permitted winter-grape vinegar. Rabbi Judah ben Bathyra said: if it bears the name of its origin, and he vows to abstain from it, he is forbidden [to benefit] from what comes from it. But the Sages permit it. According to the sages, whose opinion is expressed here and at the end of the mishnah, although “date honey” and “winter grape vinegar” are called by the same name as “dates” and “winter grapes”, they are permitted to one who vowed to abstain from dates or winter grapes. [Winter grapes are a type of grape that ripens in late fall and are only used for making vinegar.] We assume that when he prohibited dates or winter grapes to himself, his intention was the dates or winter grapes themselves, and not anything that derives from them. Rabbi Judah ben Bathyra says that since they still retain the name of dates or winter-grapes, they are forbidden. This would be true in any case of a food which retains the name of the food from which it derives.
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Bartenura on Mishnah Nedarim
וחכמים מתירין\ – there is a difference between the first Tanna/teacher and the Sages, for the first Tanna/teacher holds that a person who takes a vow against winter/autumnal grape is permitted to the vinegar that comes from them, and is forbidden [to consume] winter grapes, but the Sages permit winter grapes themselves, for since winter grapes are not eatable, when he took a vow from [consuming] winter grapes, his intention was on the vinegar that comes out from them, not on the winter grapes themselves. And the Halakha is according to the Sages. Another explanation: But the Sages permit the vinegar of winter grapes like the honey of dates, for the Sages hold that whether they are things appropriate for consumption pr whether they are inappropriate for consumption a person who prohibits something upon himself is permitted [to consume] that which comes out from it.
