Talmud do Kelim 17:22

Rebbi Joḥanan said, the Ark was made with a cubit of six hand-breadths. Who stated “a cubit of six hand-breadths“? This is Rebbi Meןr’s. [As we have stated³³Mishnah Kelim17:10.: “Rebbi Meןr says, all cubits were of buildings; Rebbi Jehudah says, the cubit of buildings six, of vessels five.”] According to Rebbi Meןr who says that the Ark was made with a cubit of six hand-breadths, the length of the Ark was fifteen cubits, as it is written³⁴Ex. 25:10.: Its length two cubits and a half. Each cubit was six and half a cubit three. Four tablets were in it, two whole ones and two broken ones, as it is written³⁵Deut. 10:2.: Which you broke and put into the Ark. Each of the tablets was six hand-breadths in length and three in width. Put the widths of the tablets in the length of the Ark, there were three hand-breadths left. Apply them to the cylinder³⁶The Torah scroll.. [On each side half a hand-breadth to have a handle, and two hand-breadths as place to put there the Torah scroll.]³⁷Corrector’s addition from B, to be deleted. The width of the Ark was nine hand-breadths, as it is written: A cubit and half a cubit. A cubit six and half a cubit three. Four tablets were in it, two whole ones and two broken ones. Each of the tablets was six hand-breadths in length and three in width. Put the lengths of the tablets in the length of the Ark, there were three hand-breadths left. On each side half a hand-breadth to have a handle, and two hand-breadths as a place to put there the Torah scroll.

Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish said, the Ark was made using a cubit of five hand-breadths. Who stated “a cubit of five hand-breadths”? This is Rebbi Jehudah. As we have stated there³³Mishnah Kelim17:10.: “Rebbi Jehudah says, the builders’ cubit was of six hand-breadths, but that of vessels five hand-breadths.” And the Ark is a vessel. According to Rebbi Jehudah who says that the Ark was made with a cubit of five hand-breadths, the length of the Ark was twelve and one half cubits, as it is written³⁴Ex. 25:10.: Its length two cubits and a half. Each cubit was five and half a cubit two and one half. Four tablets were in it, two whole ones and two broken ones, as it is written³⁵Deut. 10:2.: Which you broke and put into the Ark. Each of the tablets was six hand-breadths in length and three in width. Put the width of the tablets in the length of the Ark, there remains there half a handbreadth. One finger’s thickness for the wall on either side. The width of the Ark was seven and a half hand-breadths, as it is written, Its width a cubit and half a cubit. A cubit five and half a cubit two and a half. Four tablets were in it, two whole ones and two broken ones, as it is written³⁵Deut. 10:2.: Which you broke and put into the Ark.. Each of the tablets was six hand-breadths in length and three in width. Put the lengths of the tablets in the width of the Ark, there was one and a half hand-breadths left. ³⁹This sentence is not a continuation of the preceding text but the conclusion of an additional argument about the width of the Ark, reproduced in B and Soṭah. One finger’s thickness for the wall on either side and on each side half a hand-breadth to have a handle.

It was stated, “a full gulp.” Does this disagree⁵⁴In the Mishnah, the expression for solid food is “like (in the volume of) a date”, implying that pieces of food eaten at different times are added together to determine liability. The expression for fluids is “a gulp”, not “like (the volume of) a gulp”, but the statement of the Mishnah that different fluids combine show that “like (the volume of) a gulp” is understood. Is this also the position of the Tanna of the baraita or does he deny that different sips can add to a large gulp?? A full gulp, what is possible as one gulp⁵⁵The baraita also agrees with the Mishnah.. It was stated in the name of the House of Shammai, a full gulp is equivalent to a quartarius⁵⁶A quarter of a log, about 133 cm³.. Rebbi Ḥiyya bar Ada asked before Rebbi Mana, why was this not stated as one of the leniencies of the House of Shammai and restrictions of the House of Hillel⁵⁷A quartarius is the standard size of a cup whose contents normally are consumed in two gulps. Therefore the standard of the House of Shammai seems to be twice that of the House of Hillel.? He told him, because of the gulp of Ben Avatiah⁵⁸He is mentioned in Mishnah Kelim17:12 as largest Cohen on record.
In contrast to the House of Shammai who determine the volume for the Day of Atonement as a standard measure, the House of Hillel insist that they vary from person to person (Mishnah Kelim 17:11). which contained more than a quartarius.

MISHNAH: If somebody trains a vine over part of a papyrus³⁸Definition of the Gaonic commentary to Kelim 17.3. Some sources here and in Kelim have אפפיריו, a medieval commentator writes הפיפיריות. The latter reading, seeing in the prothetic א the definite article ה, is supported by the Halakhah which uses פיפור, פיפר and the similar reading of most commentaries in Kelim. Most moderns see in the word a form of Greek πάπυρος (but this fits better with Tosephta Kelim b.m. 5:15, כלי פפיר “paper vessels”.) According to the Geonim, one takes rope from papyrus leaves (according to Maimonides, the reeds themselves) and puts them crosswise into a frame in order to form a platform that will be supported by posts. Sources confirming the use of papyrus rope in Antiquity are adduced by Loew in Krauss’s Dictionary, s. v. פיפור.
{In view of the formal parallelism between “part of a papyrus” and “part of a futile tree”, “part of a fig tree”, one might also take papyrus as a living plant, rather than a rope or mat of papyrus fibers.
Papyrus antiquorum, mostly perennial grassy plants cultivated throughout the ancient world, had multiple commercial uses: e. g., Cyperus esculentus with edible, oil-rich bulbs (Bulbuli Trasi,Dulcinia), Cyperus officinalis, used medically, Cyperus textilis, used in basket-weaving and paper manufacture. A papyrus plant growing near a vine would therefore also make sense in a discussion of kilaim. (E. G.)}, he should not sow under the rest, but if he did, it does not become sanctified³⁹It is clear from the last sentence in the Mishnah that one speaks here of a single vine, not a vineyard or a trellis of five vines. Therefore, only a minimal distance has to be kept from the stem of the vine. Since the vine will expand, and the area below the part of the papyrus not covered by the branches and leaves of the vine is certainly more than a cubit away from the stem and can be used for other crops. However, if either the sown plants or the vine expand so that now parts of the plants are directly under the vine, the plants become forbidden. A prudent farmer, therefore, will not even start sowing close to the vine.. If the new growth expands it becomes forbidden. The same applies to one who trains over parts of a futile tree⁴⁰In modern Hebrew, the term means “non-fruit-bearing tree” and סרק (2) has the general connotation of “useless, abortive”. [סרק (1) means “to comb”.] The word may be derived from the root that appears as Arabic סרק, Assyrian שרק, “to rob” (as in Saracen), a tree which robs the farmer of his labor if he would tend it. It is clear from the next Mishnah that a tree bearing cheap fruit is also אילן סרק. Because it does not bear high quality fruit, it has the same status as a rope or a beam..
If somebody trains a vine over part of a fruit tree he may sow under the rest. If new grows expands, he must move it⁴¹He must move the vine to reestablish the required separation..
It happened that Rebbi Joshua visited Rebbi Ismael from Kefar Aziz⁴²This is the reading of the Leyden ms. and the texts dependent on it. All other Mishnah texts have: “Rebbi Joshua visited Rebbi Ismael at Kefar Aziz”, לכפר instead of מכפר. In that case, the host is R. Ismael (ben Elisha), the student of R. Joshua, who should have known his teacher’s opinion. It therefore seems likely that the Yerushalmi version is superior and the host is a minor figure mentioned only here. The paragraph establishes the previous Mishnah as R. Joshua’s.. He showed him a vine trained over parts of a fig tree and asked, may I sow under the rest? He told him, it is permitted. He took him from there to the armory and showed him a vine trained over part of a beam and a sycamore stump on which were many beams. He said to him, under that one beam it is forbidden, the rest is permitted.
What is a futile tree? One which does not bear fruit. Rebbi Meïr says, every tree is futile except olive and fig trees. Rebbi Yose says, a futile tree is one of which one does not plant entire orchards.

Rebbi Berekhiah in the name of Rebbi Samuel bar Naḥman: Why is “Land, Land” written twice⁵⁰Deut. 8:8: A Land of wheat and barley, and vine, and fig tree, and pomegranate, a Land of the oil-olive and honey.? To tell you that a house stands only on these two things⁵¹The necessities of life are wheat and olive oil.. Why are [the others] included? Rebbi Jehuda ben Rebbi and Rebbi Samuel ben Naḥman, one says for benedictions⁵²Explained Berakhot 6:4, Notes 150–151, where this opinion is labelled “Babylonian”., the other says for measures⁵³In the Babli, Eruvin 4a/b, Sukkah 5b, this is reported in the name of the Babylonian Rav Ḥanin. The seven measures are: I. A person entering a leprous house is severely impure only if he remains long enough that he could have eaten a slice of wheat bread (Lev. 14:47). 2. A fragment of a human bone the size of a barley corn imparts impurity. 3. A quarter log of wine drunk by a nazir makes him subject to punishment. As a derivative, a quarter log of wine is the minimum for legal obligations. 4. Somebody carrying food in the volume of a dried fig from private to public domain on the Sabbath is guilty of desecrating the Sabbath. 5. A vessel having a pomegranate-sized hole is unusable and freed from the impurity of vessels. 6. The volume of an olive is the standard for most rules involving solid food. 7. Eating food in the volume of a dried date on the Day of Atonement is a desecration of the day.. He who says for benedictions is understandable. He who says for measures, did we not state: “A shiny mark the size of half a bean⁵⁴Lev. 13:1–8, Mishnah Nega‘im 6:1.. A smaller lesion does not make impure.”? That is not reliable⁵⁵The size of the lesion does not mean anything in itself. Even if the lesion is larger, if it does not grow after being seen by the Cohen it does not make impure. If it is smaller but seen by the Cohen and then spreads, there is impurity. (Explanation of Pene Moshe). Another interpretation would be that this and the next measure are not standardized.. “The size of a lentil from a crawling thing”⁵⁶Mishnah Kelim 17:6. A fragment of a dead crawling animal (Lev. 11:29–31) in the size of a lentil makes impure.? That is not reliable⁵⁷An integral limb makes impure even if it is smaller than a lentil..

Rebbi Joḥanan said, the Ark was made with a cubit of six handbreadths. Who stated “a cubit of six handbreadths”? This is Rebbi Meïr. As we have stated⁹⁸Mishnah Kelim 17:10.: “Rebbi Meïr says, all cubits were average⁹⁹There was also a small cubit of 5 handbreadths and a large one of 7..” According to Rebbi Meïr who says that the Ark was made with a a cubit of six handbreadths, the length of the Ark was fifteen cubits, as it is written¹⁰⁰Ex. 25:10.: “Its length two cubits and a half.” Each cubit was six and half a cubit three¹⁰¹This Aramaic insert of elementary counting seems to be a gloss.. Four tablets were in it, two broken ones and two whole ones¹⁰²In the Babli (Baba batra 14b, Menaḥot 99a) attributed to the fourth generation Amora Rav Joseph., as it is written¹⁰³Deut. 10:2. This explanation of the verse requires the removal of the masoretic dividing accent. and a revocalization וַשַּׂמְתָּם with waw conversive.: “Which you broke and put into the Ark.” Each of the tablets was six handbreadths in length and three in width¹⁰⁴In the Babli (Baba batra 14a, Nedarim 38a, Menaḥot 99a), the tablets are said to have been six by six handbreadths with a height of three, lying one after the other in the Ark for a total length of 12 and width 6.. If the widths of the tablets were in the length of the Ark, there were three handbreadths left¹⁰⁵Four tablets lying side by side with their long sides touching one another fill an area of 12 by 6 handbreadths.. Apply them to the cylinder¹⁰⁶Probably the Torah scroll, cf. Note 95. The Torah scroll should have been “next to the Ark”, Deut. 31:26.. The width of the Ark was nine handbreadths, as it is written: “A cubit and half a cubit.” A cubit six and half a cubit three. Four tablets were in it, two broken ones and two whole ones. Each of the tablets was six handbreadths in length and three in width. If the lengths of the tablets were in the length of the Ark⁹⁷In Šeqalim: תֵּן אָרְכָּן שֶׁלַּלּוּחוֹת לְאָרְכּוֹ שֶׁלָּאָרוֹן “If the lengths of the tablets were in the length of the Ark”. This text is the correct one since in the text here the second case is identical with the first., there were three handbreadths left¹⁰⁷If the tablets were put into the Ark lengthwise in pairs, they fill a rectangle of length 12 and width 6.. On each side half a handbreadth to have a handle, and two handbreadths as place to put there the Torah scroll¹⁰⁸The first hand in Šeqalim here also has “for the cylinder” (اٌسطونة), proving the equivalence of “cylinder” and “Torah scroll”; cf. Note 121..

Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish said, the Ark was made using a cubit of five handbreadths. Who stated “a cubit of five handbreadths”? This is Rebbi Jehudah. As we have stated there⁹⁸Mishnah Kelim 17:10.: “Rebbi Jehudah says, the builders’ cubit was of six handbreadths, but that of vessels five handbeadths.” And the Ark is a vessel. According to Rebbi Jehudah who says that the Ark was made with a cubit of five handbreadths, the length of the Ark was twelve and one half cubits, as it is written¹⁰⁰Ex. 25:10.: “Its length two cubits and a half.” Each cubit was five and half a cubit two and one half¹⁰¹This Aramaic insert of elementary counting seems to be a gloss.. Four tablets were in it, two whole ones and two broken ones¹⁰²In the Babli (Baba batra 14b, Menaḥot 99a) attributed to the fourth generation Amora Rav Joseph., as it is written¹⁰³Deut. 10:2. This explanation of the verse requires the removal of the masoretic dividing accent. and a revocalization וַשַּׂמְתָּם with waw conversive.: “Which you broke and put into the Ark.” Each of the tablets was six handbreadths in length and three in width¹⁰⁴In the Babli (Baba batra 14a, Nedarim 38a, Menaḥot 99a), the tablets are said to have been six by six handbreadths with a height of three, lying one after the other in the Ark for a total length of 12 and width 6.. If the widths of the tablets were in the length of the Ark, there was half a handbreadth left¹⁰⁹12.5 - 4·3 = 0.5.. One finger’s thickness for the wall on either side. The width of the Ark was seven and one half handbreadths, as it is written¹⁰⁰Ex. 25:10.: “A cubit and half a cubit.” A cubit five and half a cubit two and one half. Four tablets were in it, two whole ones and two broken ones, as it is written¹⁰³Deut. 10:2. This explanation of the verse requires the removal of the masoretic dividing accent. and a revocalization וַשַּׂמְתָּם with waw conversive.: “Which you broke and put into the Ark.”. Each of the tablets was six handbreadths in length and three in width. If the lengths of the tablets were in the width of the Ark, there were one and a half handbreadths left¹¹⁰7.5 - 6 = 1.5.. One finger’s thickness for the wall on either side, and on each side half a handbreadth to have a handle¹¹¹In this opinion, the Torah scroll by necessity was outside the Ark; cf. Note 106..

Rebbi Joḥanan and Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish, one says according to Rebbi Meïr ten things sanctify¹⁰⁸They sanctify in the most minute amounts and cannot be lifted. These include the six items listed in Mishnah 7 and the items forbidden in Mishnaiot 3,4,5,6, where Mishnah 3 is counted as one item.; the other says according to Rebbi Meïr all things¹³¹Sold by the piece. sanctify. Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa said this as a tradition¹³²The interpretation of statement of R. Meïr was already a tannaïtic problem.. A Mishnah disagrees with him who says, according to Rebbi Meïr ten things sanctify, as we have stated there¹³³Kelim17:4. The Mishnah refers to the rule that a vessel which has a hole the size of an average pomegranate is no longer considered a vessel and cannot be impure. There is a discussion whether “average pomegranate” means “Badan pomegranate.”: “Rebbi Jehudah¹³⁴In the Mishnah: R. Yose. This reading seems to be the correct one since R. Yose is the youngest of all Tannaïm mentioned there, is mentioned last, and practice follows him. said, Badan pomegranates and Geba¹³⁵This Geba is an otherwise unidentified place in Samaria. Since Badan and Geba are in Samaria and Samaritans never tithe produce for sale and reject the notion of heave and tithes for produce other than grain, wine, and olive oil, one knows that pomegranates and leeks are subject to heave and tithing since Samaritans are a Jewish sect, and their produce is certainly ṭevel for heave and tithes.
The reading חצירי is that of the scribe of the ms. who corrected it to חריצי, the form found in the Venice text. The text in Kelim reads חצירי “leeks”; neither Hebrew חריץ “incision, furrow”, nor Arabic ח̇רצ “palm branch” make any sense here. leeks were mentioned only because one must tithe them as certain everywhere.”

HALAKHAH: 5. “Reed to make a writing pen,” etc. Rebbi Ḥiyya in the name of Rebbi Joḥanan: But at least that it reaches to the finger joints¹⁰⁰Babli 90b as a tannaitic statement; Tosephta 8:21.. Rebbi Zeˋira asked, one understands up to here. Maybe up to here¹⁰¹The same question is asked in the Babli, which joints are meant? The roots of the fingers or the middle joint? The question is not answered there either.? There, we have stated¹⁰²Mishnah Kelim13:2. Any vessel may become impure. When it is broken, it lost its impurity. The Mishnah states that impurity is eliminated only if it is completely unusable, not if a multi-purpose instrument has lost one of its uses. The slate pen is used to write on a wax-covered wooden tablet; its wide back is used to erase the writing and prepare the tablet for new writing.: “A pen of which the writing tip was broken off is impure because of the eraser. If the eraser was broken off it is impure because of the writing tip.” Rebbi Zeˋira asked, one understand up to here. Maybe up to here¹⁰³Here also the minimal size of a pen remains undefined as it was for the reed pen.? Rebbi Yose said, any “egg” which was stated in Kelim means the actual volume of an egg. In Šabbat in the volume of a dried fig, of an egg¹⁰⁴In Mishnah Kelim17:6 it is stated that “volume of an egg” mentioned in the Mishnah means volume of an average sized egg. It is now stated that the volume of “an easily cooked egg” means that of a small chicken egg, the volume of a dried Palestinian fig. Babli 80b..