In quello stesso giorno, Yehuda, un convertito di ammoniti, si presentò e si fermò davanti a loro nel Beit Midrash e disse loro: "Qual è il mio status riguardo al fatto che posso entrare [tramite il matrimonio] nella congregazione [di Israele]? " Rabban Gamliel gli disse: "Sei proibito". Il rabbino Yehoshua gli disse: "Ti è permesso". Rabban Gamliel gli disse: "Il verso dice: (Deuteronomio 23: 4)" Un ammonita e un moavita non possono entrare nella congregazione del Signore, neppure alla decima generazione "e così via". Il rabbino Yehoshua gli disse: "E gli ammoniti o i moaviti stanno ancora [abitando] al loro posto? Sancheriv, re di Assiria, sorse e mescolò già tutte le nazioni, come dice il verso, (Isaia 10:13) 'Ho rimosso i confini delle nazioni e io ho saccheggiato i loro tesori e come un grande guerriero ha abbattuto gli abitanti. "" Rabban Gamliel gli disse: "Il verso [anche] afferma, (Geremia 49: 6)" E dopo restituire i prigionieri dei figli di Ammon, "e sono già tornati". Il rabbino Yehoshua gli disse: "Il verso [anche] afferma, (Amos 9:14) 'E io restituirò i prigionieri della mia nazione Israele,' [e Giuda], e non sono ancora tornati". Loro [i Saggi, successivamente] gli permisero [il convertito di ammoniti] di entrare nella congregazione.
Bartenura on Mishnah Yadayim
שנאמר ואסיר גבולות עמים (“I have erased the borders of peoples; I have plundered their treasures, And exiled their vast populations”) – that he (i.e., the Assyrians) would banish the people of this city and settle them in a different city, and he would banish the people of a different city and settle them in this city.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Yadayim
Introduction
Deuteronomy 23:4 states that an Ammonite or Moabite "cannot enter the assembly of the Lord." The rabbis interpret this to mean that even if an Ammonite or Moabite convert, they still cannot marry a regular Israelite.
Our mishnah, whose discussion also occurred "on that day," deals with an Ammonite convert who comes before the sages asking if he is part of this prohibition. It sounds like the story was probably placed in this chapter because the previous mishnah also discussed Ammon and Moab.
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Bartenura on Mishnah Yadayim
ושבתי את שבות עמי ישראל ועדיין לא שבו – just as they (i.e., the children of Israel) did not return, so also, they (i.e., the people of Ammon) did not return.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Yadayim
On that day Judah, an Ammonite convert, came and stood before them in the house of study. He said to them: Do I have the right to enter into the assembly? Rabban Gamaliel said to him: you are forbidden. Rabbi Joshua said to him: you are permitted. Judah the Ammonite, who seems to have already converted to Judaism, comes in front of Rabban Gamaliel and Rabbi Joshua asking to be allowed to marry an Israelite woman (not another Ammonite convert).
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Bartenura on Mishnah Yadayim
והתירו לבוא בקהל – for since that [members] from the seventy nations [of the known world] it is not forbidden for them to join/enter into the [Israelite] community other than the Ammonite and Moabite for all time, and an Egyptian and an Edomite for the first and second generations [it is forbidden for them to enter the Israelite community] (see Deuteronomy 23:8-9), here where these nations are not known for they (i.e., Ammonites and Moabites) have already been mixed up and combined among the rest of the other nations, we state: “he who separates [himself] - separates from a majority,” and all who convert are permitted to enter the [Israelite] community.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Yadayim
Rabban Gamaliel said to him: the verse says, "An Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter into the assembly of the Lord: even to the tenth generation" (Deuteronomy 23:4). Rabban Gamaliel refuses to allow him to do so based on the verse from Deuteronomy. This would seem to be an open and shut case. Deuteronomy prohibits Ammonites from marrying into the assembly, so Judah should have to go marry someone else.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Yadayim
R. Joshua said to him: But are the Ammonites and Moabites still in their own territory? Sanheriv, the king of Assyria, has long since come up and mingled all the nations, as it is said: "In that I have removed the bounds of the peoples, and have robbed their treasures, and have brought down as one mighty the inhabitants" (Isaiah 10:1. However, Rabbi Joshua responds by saying that those who identify today (i.e. in his day) as Ammonites are no longer the same Ammonites of yore. King Sanheriv, the same Assyrian king who destroyed the northern kingdom, came and mixed up all of the peoples, forcibly transferring them from one place to another, as he did with the 10 northern tribes. Therefore, the rules of the Torah that applied to the Ammonites back then, no longer apply now.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Yadayim
Rabban Gamaliel said to him: the verse says, "But afterward I will bring back the captivity of the children of Ammon," (Jeremiah 49:6) they have already returned. Rabban Gamaliel actually accepts Rabbi Joshua's argument but responds that there is another verse that shows that God brought back the Ammonites from their exile. According to Rabban Gamaliel the verse from Jeremiah does not refer to the "end of days" as do the verses regarding the Moabites (Jeremiah 48:47) and Elam (49:39). Rather, God has already restored the Ammonites, so the prohibition from Deuteronomy applies again.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Yadayim
Rabbi Joshua said to him: [another] verse says, "I will return the captivity of my people Israel and Judah" (Amos 9:14). Yet they have not yet returned. The argument now turns on the meaning of a verse that says, "And I have returned" a certain people to their place. The prophet Amos uses the same language with regard to Israel and nevertheless Israel has not returned to its homeland, at least not all of Israel. So too, when it comes to Ammon, just because someone is currently an "Ammonite" does not mean that they are prohibited by the verse in Deuternomy.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Yadayim
So they permitted him to enter the assembly. The mishnah concludes with good news for our friend Judah. He is allowed into the community, meaning he can go find himself a good Yiddishe mamma! Sign the boy up for JDate!
