Si l'on se fait vœu de dattes, on lui permet (de manger) du miel de datte. de "sitvaniyoth" [raisins inférieurs laissés sur les vignes à l'automne (stav). Ils ne sont pas dignes du vin, et du vinaigre en est fait], il est autorisé (à manger) du vinaigre de sitvaniyoth. R. Yehudah b. Betheira dit: Toute chose dont les produits sont appelés par son nom [et même si elle a changé, elle est appelée par le nom de sa source, par exemple, "miel de datte", "vinaigre de sitvaniyoth"]—s'il s'en fait vœu, il lui est interdit (d'en manger) aussi ce qui en sort. Et les sages le permettent. [La différence entre le premier tanna et les sages est que le premier tanna soutient que celui qui se voue de sitvaniyoth est autorisé (à manger) le vinaigre exsudé par eux, mais il est interdit de manger les sitvaniyoth eux-mêmes. «Et les sages permettent» les sitvaniyoth eux-mêmes. Car puisque les sitvaniyoth ne sont pas mangés (en règle générale), quand il s'est voué de «sitvaniyoth», son intention était le vinaigre qu'ils dégageaient, et non les sitvaniyoth eux-mêmes. La halakha est conforme aux sages. Une autre interprétation: «Et les sages autorisent le sitvaniyoth-vinaigre comme ils le font le miel de datte, les sages soutenant que tant avec des choses dignes à manger qu'avec des choses qui ne sont pas dignes à manger, si l'on s'interdit une chose particulière à lui-même, il est autorisé à mange ce qui en sort.]
Bartenura on Mishnah Nedarim
סתוניות – bad grapes that remain in the vines in he days of the fall, bt are not appropriate for wine, and we make of them vinegar.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Nedarim
Introduction
Employing the example of dates and date honey, and winter grapes and winter grape vinegar, the mishnah discusses food derivatives that still partially retain the name of the foods from which they derive. An example today might be apples and apple juice. This differs from wine and oil (in the mishnah “oil” always refers to olive oil), which are not called “grape wine” or “olive oil”.
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Bartenura on Mishnah Nedarim
כל ששם תולדתו קרויה עליו – but even though it has changed, it is called by its original name, like the honey of date-palms and the vinegar of winter grapes.
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English Explanation of Mishnah Nedarim
He who vows abstinence from dates is permitted date honey; from winter grapes, is permitted winter-grape vinegar. Rabbi Judah ben Bathyra said: if it bears the name of its origin, and he vows to abstain from it, he is forbidden [to benefit] from what comes from it. But the Sages permit it.He who vows abstinence from dates is permitted date honey; from winter grapes, is permitted winter-grape vinegar. Rabbi Judah ben Bathyra said: if it bears the name of its origin, and he vows to abstain from it, he is forbidden [to benefit] from what comes from it. But the Sages permit it. According to the sages, whose opinion is expressed here and at the end of the mishnah, although “date honey” and “winter grape vinegar” are called by the same name as “dates” and “winter grapes”, they are permitted to one who vowed to abstain from dates or winter grapes. [Winter grapes are a type of grape that ripens in late fall and are only used for making vinegar.] We assume that when he prohibited dates or winter grapes to himself, his intention was the dates or winter grapes themselves, and not anything that derives from them. Rabbi Judah ben Bathyra says that since they still retain the name of dates or winter-grapes, they are forbidden. This would be true in any case of a food which retains the name of the food from which it derives.
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Bartenura on Mishnah Nedarim
וחכמים מתירין\ – there is a difference between the first Tanna/teacher and the Sages, for the first Tanna/teacher holds that a person who takes a vow against winter/autumnal grape is permitted to the vinegar that comes from them, and is forbidden [to consume] winter grapes, but the Sages permit winter grapes themselves, for since winter grapes are not eatable, when he took a vow from [consuming] winter grapes, his intention was on the vinegar that comes out from them, not on the winter grapes themselves. And the Halakha is according to the Sages. Another explanation: But the Sages permit the vinegar of winter grapes like the honey of dates, for the Sages hold that whether they are things appropriate for consumption pr whether they are inappropriate for consumption a person who prohibits something upon himself is permitted [to consume] that which comes out from it.
