Talmud su 'Eruvin 8:14

Rav Hoshaia asked: If he brought a plank²⁷A solid wooden plank. While it is of vegetable origin, it cannot be used for thatching if it is too wide since it is impermeable by both light and rain. The pillar is standing in the middle of the sukkah. One may either sit under the protruding plank or on top of it. and put it protruding on top of a pillar. It is obvious that if he measures from the plank there are twenty cubits, if he measures from the ground it is not twenty cubits²⁸But more than that.. How do you treat this? As disqualified space, as disqualified thatching? If you are treating it as disqualified space, it disqualifies by three hand-breadths²⁹If it cannot be used for thatching, cf. Note 13; Halakhah 10.. If you are treating it as disqualified thatching, it only disqualifies by four cubits³⁰If the roof is made of solid material, only in the center there is a skylight which can be covered by thatching; this may be a qualified sukkah if the solid material does not extend 4 cubits from the walls. The solid roof then simply is considered a horizontal part of the vertical walls.. Rebbi Yose ben Rebbi Abun in the name of Ḥizqiah: Disqualified thatching only disqualifies by four cubits, since it serves only to permit the sukkah³¹Babli 4a.. Rebbi Miasha said, I am wondering what was Rav Hoshaia’s problem? Why does he not infer from the statement of Rebbi Abba bar Mamal, since we stated there³²Mishnah 1:10.: “If one makes the wall hanging from top to bottom, if it is more than three hand-breadths higher than the ground it is disqualified³³Up to three hand-breadths of empty space are disregarded both on top (Note 13) or on the bottom of a wall. The wall is considered as if standing on the ground.;” and Rebbi Abba bar Mamal said, if he does not sit and eats in the shade of the walls, but if he was sitting and eating in the shade of the walls it is qualified³⁴If he sits on the ground in such a sukkah, it is as if he sits in the open. But if he lies on a couch or sits on a chair higher that 3 hand-breadths, he is surrounded by walls and is under a thatched roof, fulfilling the commandment to sit in the sukkah. Similarly, in the case of Rav Hoshaia, one should say that if he sits on the ground, the sukkah is disqualified, but not if he sits on the plank.. Rebbi Yose said, that of Rebbi Abba bar Mamal is not an inference since Rebbi Abba bar Mamal learned it from another Mishnah, as we have stated there³⁵Eruvin Mishnah 8:9.: “From a balcony above the sea one may not draw water on the Sabbath unless one made a partition ten hand-breadths high either above or below³⁶The house is on a lakeshore, the balcony is built over the lake, and there is a hole in the balcony through which a pail may be lowered to draw water. While obviously water is always moving and it cannot be asserted that water drops found under the balcony on the Sabbath were there at sundown, and the water could have come from outside the house’s Sabbath domain, since the restriction is purely rabbinic it is enough that under the balcony one make a symbolic wall whose extension would enclose the water..” And Rebbi Ze`ira said, Rav Jehudah in the name of Rav: Only if the partition is lowered into the water the full length of a pail³⁷A quote from Eruvin Chapter 8 (Notes 73–80). Since water is always moving, it is impossible to know which molecules will be where at a given time. The answer is that this is irrelevant; at the time the pail is lowered it will draw water only from water on the house’s side of the partition lowered into the lake.. But one cannot compare it. The sea is karmelit, neither private nor public domain³⁸A technical term defined in this sentence. Cf. Šabbat1, Note 73.. But here the Torah said, in sukkot you shall dwell¹⁸Lev. 23:42.. From the floor of the sukkah you measure twenty cubits³⁹In all cases. R. Abba bar Mamal’s statement is disproved..

Mishnah: “What the people of Tiberias did,” etc. ⁹³A different version is in the Babli, 40a, as baraita in the name of Bar Qappara. Originally they closed the conduit⁹⁴Greek καμῖνος, ὁ. on Friday and they entered⁹⁵The bathhouse. and bathed on the Sabbath. They were suspected of filling it with wood on Friday so it would burn continuously on the Sabbath; they forbade them bathing and permitted sweating. They were suspected of coming and bathing but saying “we were sweating.” They forbade bathing and sweating to them. If there were there two basins, one of sweet water⁹⁶Lukewarm water, result of heating. It seems that “salt water” does not mean sea water but cold water, possibly from Lake Genezareth. and one of salt water. They were suspected of uncovering the planks and bathing in sweet water but saying, “we did bathe in salt water;”⁹⁷Here starts another Genizah fragment edited by Ginsberg (pp. 76–79). they forbade them everything. When they were fenced in⁹⁸The people of Tiberias observed all rabbinic “fences around the law.” they continuously permitted them more until they permitted them water in a cave⁹⁹Where there is no danger that it should have been heated artificially on the Sabbath. and the hot springs of Tiberias, but they did not permit bringing towels¹⁰⁰Latin linteum; linen bath towel.. Who permitted the bringing of linen cloths? Rebbi Ḥanina ben Aqabia, as it was stated¹⁰¹The statement appears three times in the Yerushalmi, here, and Eruvin 8 (Note 115), Sukkah 1:9 (52c line 32); in the Babli Eruvin 87a.: Rebbi Ḥanina ben Aqabia permitted three things. He permitted seaweed¹⁰²In the Babli: עֵצָה “wood branches, splinters”. Even though seaweed is naturally wet it is not prepared for impurity (Chapter 1, Note 316) and may be used as insulating material to keep food warm for the Sabbath., he permitted the balcony¹⁰³If a house is built on a lake shore (or sea shore) and a balcony extends over the water, if the floor of the balcony has an opening through which a pail can be lowered into the water he permits to draw water through the opening on the Sabbath even though there is little likelihood that the water drops drawn were below the balcony at the beginning of the Sabbath., and he permitted bringing linen cloths.

MISHNAH: If one borrows vessels from another person, on holiday eve they are like the feet of the borrower, on the holiday like the feet of the lender. If a woman borrowed from another spices, water, and salt, for her dough, they are like the feet of both of them⁹⁸Both the ingredients and the dough may be moved only to a place accessible to both women.. Rebbi Jehudah excludes water since it lacks stability⁹⁹Since water may be taken from a river or an aqueduct bringing water from outside the Sabbath domain, the domain restrictions cannot apply to it..

MISHNAH: If one drops walls down from top to bottom, if they remain higher than three hand-breadths it is disqualified¹⁸⁹But walls starting less than 3 hand-breadths from the ground are equivalent to walls standing on the ground.. From bottom to top¹⁹⁰Standing on the ground, even if the roofing is less than 10 hand-breadths from the ground., if it reaches ten hand-breadths it is qualified. Rebbi Yose said, just as from bottom to top ten hand-breadths so from top to bottom ten hand-breadths¹⁹¹For him a wall 10 hand-breadths high always is qualified, irrespective of vertical distances from ground or roof.. If the roofing is three hand-breadths distant from the walls it is disqualified¹⁹²The sukkah is disqualified if along any wall the roofing is not within 3 horizontal hand-breadths..