Talmud sur Menachot 5:10

From where that weaves precede presentations¹⁶Mishnah Menaḥot 5:6 states that weave always precedes presentation. One has to wonder about Rashi’s Yerushalmi text since in his commentary to that Mishnah he follows R. Jeremiah.? Rebbi Jeremiah in the name of Rebbi Pedat: They learned that from the case of the suspected wife¹⁷Since Num. 5:25 clearly prescribes first weave and then presentation.. Rebbi Yose said, the suspected wife is different because of its novelty and one cannot infer from anything that is different because of its novelty¹⁸While not in the tannaïtic rules, this is a generally recognized hermeneutical principle in both Talmudim; cf. Babli Ketubot 45a, Sanhedrin 27a. The novelty status of the suspected wife’s offering is explained in Mishnah 2:1; therefore, procedural instructions for this offering cannot imply similar instructions for the other flour offerings.. Rebbi Abun bar Ḥiyya understood it from the following¹⁹Lev. 6:7. This paragraph deals with technicalities of all flour offerings, whether they need weaving or not. Any special ceremony for certain offerings must precede the ceremonies common to all offerings.: “This is the teaching about the flour offering, present.” Where is the weave? It already preceded. Rebbi Yose said, explain it about flour offerings that do not need weaves; you cannot infer anything. Which [verse] says anything? “You shall bring,²⁰Lev. 2:8: “You shall bring the offering made from these to the Eternal; the Cohen shall bring it and present it to the altar.” “These” are flour and olive oil.
The baraita is also quoted in the Babli, Menaḥot 60b.” to include the ‘Omer flour offering in presentations. “He shall present,” to include the suspected wife’s flour offering in presentations. It is written after that²¹Lev. 2:9.: “He shall lift a fist full”; where is the weave²²Which is prescribed for the offering of the suspected wife in Num.5:25..? It already preceded.

There¹⁰⁰Mishnah Ṭahorot 3:4. The discussion is about the second part of the Mishnah, not quoted in the text: “If they were put into the rain and swelled they are impure …” The volumes indicated are the minima that may carry impurity or make their consumption a criminal offense., we have stated: “[Profane] food in the volume of an egg that was left in the sun and shrank, similarly the volume of an olive from a carcass¹⁰¹Lev. 11:24–25., or the volume of a lentil of a crawling thing¹⁰²Lev. 11:31–32., the volume of an olive rejected or overdue [sacrifice]¹⁰³Rejected sacrifice is sacrifice made with the wrong intentions, Lev. 19:7; overdue is sacrifice left after the allotted time has expired (one night, day and night, or two days and the night in between, as the case may be; Lev. 7:17.), or of fat¹⁰⁴The fat in lumps in the body, Lev. 7:22–26., are pure.” The Southerners say, only if it originally was the volume of an olive¹⁰⁵In matters of impurity and dietary laws, it is not the actual volume that counts but the volume at the time the impurity or prohibition first arose. If impurity or prohibition are impossible in the original state, they cannot be acquired by subsequent swelling. Rebbi Joḥanan and Simeon ben Laqish hold that only the actual volume at the moment matters. Everybody agrees that his guidelines carry over to the determination of heave of the tithe.; Rebbi Joḥanan and Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish both say, even if originally it was less than the volume of an olive. There¹⁰⁶Mishnah Menaḥot 5:1: “All flour sacrifices are brought unleavened except the breads for a thanksgiving sacrifice (Lev. 7:13) and the Two Breads [for Pentecost (Lev. 23:17)] which are leavened. Rebbi Meïr says, the sour dough is made from the dedicated flour. Rebbi Jehudah says, this is not of the best but he brings sour dough, puts it into the measuring vessel and fills the latter [with flour.] They said to him,that will make it deficient or redundant.”
The problem is that in each case, the amount of flour necessary is prescribed by biblical law. According to R. Meïr, one takes the exact amount, and then takes from this a small amount which is moistened to make it sour; then the sour dough is returned to the original flour which is moistened and kneaded. R. Jehudah notes that this will make poor bread; he prefers real sour dough to be used in addition to the flour of the offering. He is told that in this case, when the finished product must have specified size, his procedure probably will never be exactly right., we have stated: “They said to him, that will make it deficient or redundant.” Who said this to him? Rebbi Meïr! Sometimes the sour dough will be of high quality and it rises; if it were fine flour it would have shrunk but now, since the sour dough is of high quality it rose; you have to look at the risen [dough] as if it had shrunk; it looks deficient. Sometimes the sour dough is bad and it shrinks¹⁰⁷It does not actually shrink but will not rise. Since the measure was not full to start out with, in order to accomodate the rising dough, one now will have invalidated the offering because it is too small.; if it were fine flour it would have risen but now, since the sour dough is bad, it shrinks; you have to look at the shrunken [dough] as if it had risen; it looks redundant. According to Rebbi Jeremiah, the Southerners, Rebbi Joḥanan, and Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish, all three say the same thing in case it is redundant¹⁰⁸This text, confirmed by the mss., is impossible since the Southerners disagree with Rebbis Joḥanan and Simeon ben Laqish precisely in the case of swelling food. In must read: Rebbi Jeremiah, Rebbis Joḥanan, and Simeon ben Laqish all three say the same. The next sentence must then read: The Southerners, Rebbi Jonah and Yose all three say the same. The first group takes all food as is, the others agree only on shrinking, not on expanding food. The statements of Rebbis Jeremiah, Jonah, and Yose are in the preceding paragraph and deal with heave of the tithe.. According to Rebbi Jonah and Rebbi Yose, all three say the same thing in case it is deficient. Those of Bar Patti cooked rice and had forgotten to put it in order¹⁰⁹To tithe or at least give heave of the tithe by the rules of demay.. The colleagues wanted to say, he should take raw [rice] corresponding to the cooked. Rebbi Yose said to them, I also am saying so because regularly it increases in volume.

“And who grinds.” He who pulverizes salt, clay shards, peppers, is liable because of grinding. He who cuts into little pieces chalk, gypsum³⁴³Greek γύψος, ἡ., chaff, sand, dirt, is liable because of sifting. He who kneads chalk, gypsum, dust, eye-salve³⁴⁴Greek κολλύριον, τό., plaster³⁴⁵Greek μάλαγμα, -ατος, τό., drugs, is liable because of making dough. One who makes dough, or kneads dough, or forms dough, all are because of making dough. Rebbi Abba bar Mamal asked, there³⁴⁶Mishnah Menaḥot 5:2. The shew bread has to be unleavened. Violating this rule at any stage of the preparation of the bread is a separate biblical violation for each stage. you say, “and he is liable for making its dough, and for its forming, and for its baking,” and here you are saying so? But there he has to divide for he is liable for each single one, but here³⁴⁷For the rules of the Sabbath, kneading the dough and forming it into the required shape count only as one liability. he is liable only once. You see that baking is a derivative of cooking, and you are saying so? But it was stated here since we are stating the order of the dough³⁴⁸In Mishnah 2, one would have expected “cooking” to be listed as the name of the category; for it is the more widely applicable notion, and baking as derivative. But since the Mishnah is organized in describing the making of the shew-bread (Note 4) the category of cooking is labelled “baking”. Babli 74b..

²⁷⁹Tosephta 3:5; Babli 36a, Menaḥot52a.“One does not knead mazzah with fluids²⁷²Neither water (which is explicitly for bidden by the verse) nor fruit juice. but one may rub it with them. Rebbi Aqiba said, I was with Rebbi Eliezer and Rebbi Joshua on a ship and kneaded their mazzah with fluids. One may not knead mazzah with boiling water since it parboils²⁶⁰Bran, the outer shell of wheat kernels, also may become leavened. Since leavened matter is forbidden for usufruct, it also is forbidden as animal feed. It is assumed that the bran becomes inert if parboiled in boiling water., nor with lukewarm water because this makes leavened, but one kneads with cold water.” But did we not state²⁸⁰Mishnah Menaḥot5:2, speaking of the flour offerings in the Temple where leavening is forbidden (Lev.2:11).: “All flour offerings are kneaded with lukewarm water and one guards them lest they become leavened”? Rebbi Immi in the name of Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish: There the matter is in the hands of the Cohanim and Cohanim are quick; here it is in the hands of women and women are slow. Then it is a problem about Cohanim themselves, may they knead their mazzah with lukewarm water? ²⁸¹Chapter 1:1 Notes 37–38. Here the corrector’s additions are justified by G. It should be parallel to what Rebbi Zachariah the son-in-law of Rebbi Levi stated: A menstruating woman washes her hair and combs. A priestly woman does not wash her hair and combs. A menstruating priestly woman washes her hair and combs, not to differentiate between one menstruating woman and another. So also here, not to differentiate between mazzah and mazzah.