Talmud sur Bava Batra 10:4

אֵין כּוֹתְבִין שְׁטָרֵי אֵרוּסִין וְנִשּׂוּאִין אֶלָּא מִדַּעַת שְׁנֵיהֶם, וְהֶחָתָן נוֹתֵן שָׂכָר. אֵין כּוֹתְבִין שְׁטָרֵי אֲרִיסוּת וְקַבְּלָנוּת אֶלָּא מִדַּעַת שְׁנֵיהֶם, וְהַמְקַבֵּל נוֹתֵן שָׂכָר. אֵין כּוֹתְבִין שְׁטָרֵי בֵרוּרִין וְכָל מַעֲשֵׂה בֵית דִּין אֶלָּא מִדַּעַת שְׁנֵיהֶם, וּשְׁנֵיהֶם נוֹתְנִין שָׂכָר. רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר, שְׁנֵיהֶם כּוֹתְבִין שְׁנַיִם, לָזֶה לְעַצְמוֹ וְלָזֶה לְעַצְמוֹ:

Les brefs de fiançailles et de mariage ne sont rédigés qu'avec le consentement mutuel et le marié paie les frais. Brefs de fermage, [travail et garde d'un champ pour la moitié, un tiers ou un quart (du produit)] et contrat de terres, [tant et tant de kor par an, qu'il produise ou non] sont rédigés uniquement avec un consentement mutuel et le séquestre paie les frais. Les brefs de sélection et (de) tous les actes de beth-din ne sont rédigés qu'avec consentement mutuel. [("brefs de sélection" :) L'un (des justiciables) choisit un juge, et l'autre en choisit un, et ils écrivent: "Ce (justiciable) a choisi ce juge, et ses demandes sont telles et telles, etc.," afin qu'ils ne répètent pas leurs revendications.] Et tous les deux paient la taxe. R. Shimon n. Gamliel dit: Les deux [plaideurs] écrivent deux, chacun (écrivant un) pour lui-même, [afin que leurs réclamations soient bien ordonnées. La halakha n'est pas conforme à R. Shimon b. Gamliel, mais les revendications des deux plaideurs et du juge que chacun a choisi sont écrites dans un seul projet de loi.]

Jerusalem Talmud Gittin

There, we have stated³⁹Mishnah Baba Batra 10:4. The statements of rabbis Abba and La (Ilai) are also quoted there in Halakhah 10:4.: “One writes a bill of divorce for a man even if his wife is not with him, and a receipt⁴⁰A receipt for the amount of the ketubah due her at her divorce. for a woman even if her husband is not with her, and the husband pays the fee⁴¹The scribe’s fee..” Rebbi Abba said, he⁴²The scribe. has to know both of them. Rebbi La⁴³He is R. Ilai. In the Babli, Baba Batra 167b, his statement is attributed to Rav. said, he has to know the husband for the bill of divorce and the wife for her receipt. Rebbi Abun bar Ḥiyya asked before Rebbi [ ⁴⁴Clearly, a name is missing. R. Abun bar Ḥiyya is known to have asked questions of R. Ilai (Yoma 3:5). ]: Think of it, if he brought another woman and divorced by means of her⁴⁵Can the agent of an absent husband not fraudulently give the bill of divorce to another woman, not the wife, and have that woman foreclose the ketubah from the husband’s local property?. He said to him, let the witnesses come and testify. But did not Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish say⁴⁶Cf. Ketubot 2:3, Note 56, Ševi‘it 10:5, Note 96 (Baba Batra 10:16, 14d 1.26); Babli 3a, Ketubot 18b. Signatories of documents cannot claim that they never signed unless they claim that the signatures are forgeries. that they considered witnesses who signed a document as if their testimony had been cross-examined in court? There, if they said, we did not sign at all. But here if they say, we signed this but not that⁴⁷The witnesses can identify the persons for whom they signed; this is not a second testimony.. The Mishnah disagrees with Rebbi Abba: “In earlier times, his name and her name and the names of his and her towns could change.” If he knows them, why would he change their names⁴⁸If the scribe knew all persons involved, he could not be tricked into writing a misleading document.? There are people who know others by sight but do not know their names. The Mishnah disagrees with Rebbi Ilai: “Rabban Gamliel the Elder instituted that one should write Mr. X and all his names, Mrs. Y and all her names⁴⁹The Mishnah treats husband and wife on an equal footing but R. Ilai does not., because of the public good.” The Mishnah about one who is forced to divorce⁵⁰One of those cases in which the wife can force a divorce (cf. Ketubot 7:10) when the husband’s cooperation cannot be taken for granted., Rebbi Ila speaks about one who divorces on his initiative; some want to say if he divorces at another place⁵¹Where he has to prove his and his wife’s identities to the scribe..

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